Ready to understand why construction lags behind other sectors in terms of productivity? Keen to discover how to recapture a trillion dollars in wasted value worldwide? Then this episode is your gateway to the answers. We've got Kez Taylor, CEO of Alec, on board to help us unravel the complexities and potential of the construction industry. We kick off by dissecting the current state of the industry, particularly in the Middle East, shedding light on the trials and triumphs of mega projects and the opportunities Dubai presents as a potential leader in global construction efficiency.
Moving away from the traditional approaches, we dive into the potential of modern construction methods, like off-site manufacturing, to revolutionize the sector. Kez brings a wealth of knowledge to the table, emphasizing the significance of collaboration, early contractor involvement, and fostering a culture of innovation. We also navigate through the challenges surrounding mega construction projects and the strategies to manage them. Trust us, you don't want to miss out on this conversation about trust's pivotal role in the industry and the tactics to attract, motivate, and retain top talent. So, gear up for a deep dive into the world of construction and its promising future.
Ready to understand why construction lags behind other sectors in terms of productivity? Keen to discover how to recapture a trillion dollars in wasted value worldwide? Then this episode is your gateway to the answers. We've got Kez Taylor, CEO of Alec, on board to help us unravel the complexities and potential of the construction industry. We kick off by dissecting the current state of the industry, particularly in the Middle East, shedding light on the trials and triumphs of mega projects and the opportunities Dubai presents as a potential leader in global construction efficiency.
Moving away from the traditional approaches, we dive into the potential of modern construction methods, like off-site manufacturing, to revolutionize the sector. Kez brings a wealth of knowledge to the table, emphasizing the significance of collaboration, early contractor involvement, and fostering a culture of innovation. We also navigate through the challenges surrounding mega construction projects and the strategies to manage them. Trust us, you don't want to miss out on this conversation about trust's pivotal role in the industry and the tactics to attract, motivate, and retain top talent. So, gear up for a deep dive into the world of construction and its promising future.
Welcome everybody to episode three of the Middle East construction and real estate podcast. Thank you for joining us once again. My name is Jonathan Eveleigh and I am delighted to be joined on this episode by my good friend for many years, Kez Taylor, chief Executive Officer of Alec. Now we all know construction is hard. It's complicated.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Delivering mega projects is a complex operation that involves various aspects of planning, design, procurement, execution and management and a whole host of other allied activities regarding costs, time, health and safety, etc. But is it really any more complicated than other industries, for example, aviation, auto manufacturing, science and technology, space travel, or do we, the construction and real estate industry, just overcomplicate it? Alec have been involved in some of the Middle East's most iconic and challenging projects, including Wonser Beale, currently under construction for ICD in Dubai, seaworld Abu Dhabi, dubai International Airport and Almak 2M airport, dubai Hills Mall, madanat Jamira, to name but a very select few. So I'm keen to know from Kez how he believes projects should be conceived, designed, procured and delivered and that ultimately result in success for all participants and stakeholders. Hi Kez, a very warm welcome and thanks so much for joining me on this episode of the Middle East Construction and Real Estate Podcast. It's very much appreciated To kick things off. Can I start by asking you just to briefly introduce yourself and maybe give a quick overview of the Alec business, please.
Kez Taylor:Thanks very much, jonathan. I look forward to the podcast, and so our history is that I've been in the Middle East now for 22 years. We started the business from scratch and we came to Dubai and the UAE 2001, just after 9-11. So there was a lot of uncertainty in the world. The price of oil was around about $35 a barrel and we came here and at a time when things were changing we really quickly.
Kez Taylor:After 2001 we went through a lot of rapid growth in the market, so our timing was pretty good to get started and what happened to us as a business? We went from a startup business to a billion dollar business in seven years. So what we really experienced during that period was exponential growth in the market through. That rapid growth was a real challenge, but that allowed us to get our business to a certain size and capacity and we've generally grown from the gradually up to that initial rapid growth into a one and a half billion dollar a year business that employs 24,000 people, and we've doubt we'll be part into what we'd like to look at as future opportunities in the construction industry, like modular construction and those type of things.
Jonathan Eveleigh:It's a great success story, because it really is. Thanks for that overview. There's a couple of points you've made in there that I think will pick up as we go through this discussion, particularly the modular and other innovative actions that I guess Alaka are working on. So thank you for that. As you say, you and the business have been in the Middle East for the best part of two decades. You and I have been good friends during that time, I think, as well as business acquaintances, and I think we've got very similar thoughts and concerns about the way construction projects are procured and delivered in the Middle East. And I know this is a huge topic. But can I get you to just give your personal view on how you perceive the Middle East region construction industry procures and delivers its projects, maybe highlighting what you believe are some of the major failings and also, if you have any, some of the successes that you can give examples of where things have been done well or better.
Kez Taylor:Yeah, so I think it's not just the Middle East issue. This is actually a global issue that we're facing. So if we look at construction relative to other sector globally, the construction industry, for whatever reason, has really struggled to position itself whereby it's improving through productivity and output. The majority of the other sector have managed to do it really successfully, but we even actually been in decline over the over the last couple of decades. So things are actually getting tough with us and really what we've got to do is we've got to actually take a good look at our industry and we've got to figure out what can we do to fix them. So if you look at construction globally, every year it's estimated that we're going to be around. About a trillion dollars every year is wasted due to projects that we're having unnecessarily and that can be easily fixed. So there's a huge amount of value. Imagine we could check a trillion dollars and put that into a positive development around the world and just think what we could do with a trillion dollars every single year. So it's a huge opportunity for everyone, globally and in the Middle East, to actually make up more productive and improve our sector that we can actually align to where other industries have evolved. So for us, I mean, obviously the big challenge in the Middle East is to finish projects on time, within budget, with stakeholders succeeding and actually projects being feasible and that's so amazing project of being developed. But the process in us getting there can be hugely improved and there's a huge amount of value that can be extracted there. We actually just fixed the model that never need a lot of energy, it doesn't need a lot of money. It basically just needs a shift in mindset from people to figure out how do we actually go from where we currently are to being highly productive and, you know, eliminating what we term weight. We are just eroding value throughout this process.
Kez Taylor:I actually do believe that Dubai, in particular, should it has a great opportunity to become the leader globally in demonstrating how we can actually do this successfully. So I do think there is a huge opportunity there. A lot of projects. Having said that, not all projects are actually problems. Some of the projects actually do end up being successful, and I'm talking about mega projects, and mega projects are projects that we deem to be, let's say, around about a billion US dollars or greater than that. So the mega projects we are working on, projects where we do have tremendous relationships with clients. We have collaboration, we get all the stakeholders to work together, we resolve issues fast and we do have examples of where that has happened, and one of them is the world. In Abu Dhabi, we worked very successfully with Mural. It was a very complex project, but that project, I think, is an example and we should use it as an example on how do you lead and manage a complex mega project and deliver it successfully.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Okay, I mean that's really great. I mean it's scary. When you hear of those sort of figures from McKinsey, I mean a trillion dollars, I mean it is almost incomprehensible. But just hang on to that last point you made about successful projects, if you like. How do you define what makes a successful project, Because you've almost touched on it there. Is it just that a project has been completed more or less on time, more or less to budget, plus or minus a certain percentage, and to a reasonable quality standard, or is success more than just those things?
Kez Taylor:I think, Jonathan, that's all the last things that you'd mentioned there, but I think, over and above that, I mean what we strive for on every one of our projects that we work on is that everybody succeeds on that project. So perhaps a successful project will be where our subcontractors succeed, the suppliers that are working on that project succeed. It's where individuals that are working on that project develop and grow and succeed and become more talented on the duration of that project. So, from a sustainability point of view as well, we need to focus on sustainability and make sure that our carbon emissions are reduced, that the energy efficiency of these buildings are pretty low, and if you think about all of these things, they're pretty easy to measure. So you know, what I think we've got to do here in Dubai is we've got to come up with measurements for measuring the success of these mega projects. But once we've figured out what we're doing success to be and we then come up with the measurable around it, what we then should do is measure all projects around these key criteria and then see how we're doing, and pretty quickly. You know, one of the things that they did very successfully in Dubai was and I think you all supported it.
Kez Taylor:You know, my kids got educated, just like your kids did, and the KHDA got put in place in Dubai, which had been an authority that came up with measurements for what an outstanding school would be, and when they started this in 2008, there were, I think, three schools in Dubai that were deemed to be outstanding and the vast majority of them were, you know, let's say, average or below average, but they weren't outstanding.
Kez Taylor:But through the KHDA, by them actually measuring what an outstanding school was and publishing the results of how well these schools were performing what happened pretty quickly over the next decade or so is that the level of education in Dubai really got lifted and the number of outstanding schools now in Dubai, I think, is in excess of 30, and the vast majority of the schools are either very good or good. But the level of education in Dubai had been lifted through that initiative and I think Dubai should learn from that. And I think what we need in construction is we need to come up with something similar to the KHDA for development and construction, where our projects are measured according to the outcomes of what they achieve, and it should be published and we'll very quickly see who are the developers that are outstanding, who are the contractors that are outstanding and the ones where we're not doing so well. We can actually figure out how do we improve it and improve the delivery of all of these projects.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Moving into the future, I think that's a great example, Kez, of a model, if you like, that's been used outside of the construction industry, but it is equally. The education system could be thought of as equally complex and confusing, with lots of different paths and schools and teachers and pupils and goodness knows what else. I think that's a really good example of a model that we could follow. Can I just then flip the coin a little bit, then, and just, you've outlined some of those success criteria whereby all parties succeed, and I'm in full agreement with that. Looking at the downside, then, what do you think goes wrong? I mean what goes wrong during those various stages of design and procurement and delivery and, I guess, ultimately, the maintaining of a large, complex project. What goes wrong?
Kez Taylor:Well, I think as a contractor, the thing that we hate most is when a project is delayed or a project is changed or varied, because pretty much a lot of people seem to think that people benefit out of it. We don't benefit out of it at all because it is so difficult to get fairly compensated either for a denier or a variation on a project, because there are so many people in the system at our basic program to say no. So the best scenario for us would be that we work on a project, we have finished it on time with MDudget and we do understand that construction is and development are very creative and you do have to deal with change. But we should be able to deal with that effectively as we go through the process. We don't like change and we don't like variation and I'm pretty sure all contractors are the same. But there's a misunderstanding in the industry that contractors they seem to think that they benefit out of this and I don't think any contractors do actually benefit out of change or being delayed. But I think back to your question on the first thing is a client needs to actually have a very clear view. That is the first thing that you've got to get right. They should be pretty sure about what you want when you want it. But I think we've discussed this in the past.
Kez Taylor:If you look at the M-PAS-DAG building in America to have built in the 1930s, the 102-story building was built in 14 and a half months without any of the technological advancements that we've been through in the world over the last 80 years. So for them to do that in the 1930s, what did they get right 80 years ago that we seem to have forgotten about? You know, I think if you go and analyze the Empire State Building, you had a client who was very clear about what he wanted. So he knew he wanted this to be the highest building in the world. They were pretty clear on the design. The consultant who did the design did a proper design and he detailed it to a point that the contractor had absolutely certainty around what he was doing. So they could bring out and they could basket schedule thing, program thing, manufacture, especially the structural steel, and what that allowed them to do is to be highly productive and that had a really might have had a team working on that job where they all worked very well together.
Kez Taylor:But I think you know the first thing is. You've got to have a few of these. You've got to have between the key players. They have to be aligned as to what they want to achieve and the common objective that they got. I mean, pretty much everyone's got to do their part of it and if you get that right, like they did on the Empire State Building, you achieve phenomenal success.
Kez Taylor:So I think in today's market, if somebody really come to us and say, right, we've got to build 102 story building in 14 and a half months, we would say to them it's not possible in the current environment. And the reason for that is you know, we've got authorities. We haven't got a care of. Brief the consultants we understand that they should be actually doing the design, but a lot of the design is delegated to other parties. They've got to approve it. We had to do shop brewing, that run with that dance. There's a comp. What we're involved into and where we currently are doesn't actually end up in success. So I think we need to go back to the Empire State Building and say, right, the client gave a care free. The consultant was clearly responsible for doing the design that you could build up and the contract, they had to schedule and deliver that job. So there was certainty and trust between the problem as to who did what. There are things that become complicated. People aren't 100% sure who's doing what.
Jonathan Eveleigh:So, with all of that in mind, kez, all of those examples and criteria, I mean I think the Empire State Building is such a good example of how things can be done successfully and really should take all of our excuses away for us not being able to do things these days with all the technology that we have. So are there any systems or process or even cultures that you think can be used to manage these complicated challenges that we face? For example, do we need a more collaborative way of procuring and delivering projects, maybe using some sort of early contractor involvement during those early phases of the project design, where a contractor works with and is part of that design team, assisting developing a design that leads to a more constructable project? Do you think that could improve things?
Kez Taylor:Yeah.
Kez Taylor:So I think if we look at, say, the research that's been done and McKinsey's that done great work around collaborative contracting and this is based on that so out of the research contracts that were set up in a true collaborative manner and collaborative doesn't mean early contractor involvement alone, it means a truly collaborative environment where all the key stakeholders were engaged early and then they basically worked towards the kind of objectives and delivered value throughout the whole process.
Kez Taylor:So the research that McKinsey's have done around it, an 80% of projects that were set up in a truly collaborative manner and ended up in success in terms of finishing on time and finishing with a budget and stakeholders succeeding. So that's fast gone back. Conventional projects, whereby the lowest person gets awarded the project and we go through the normal process only 20% of those projects end up in success. The 80% of them fail. Yet everyone seems to adopt the traditional model because that this needed to be the network product, that best outcome, but it doesn't end up like. 80% of them are failure and I think we need to educate clients as to the value of true collaborative to contracting on project.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Yeah, completely agree, and I know Alec is hugely committed and focused on innovation. How much opportunity do you think there is for innovation, new technologies or construction methods? I mean, in other parts of the world there seems to be a much greater adoption of modern methods of construction. So, whether that's modularization, offsite manufacturing, standardization of design, we don't see much of that really happening in the Middle East. Why do you think that is?
Kez Taylor:I think maybe one of the reasons is that our labor is relatively inexpensive in this region compared to other parts of the world, but I don't think that is the reason not to innovate. One of the things that we did was we set up an innovation department. So we had a lead for it, so I think and that has delivered tremendous value to us. So what we wanted to do our mission to the innovation department and there to touch every single person and every single department across the board in the business is to create a culture within our business whereby everyone is trying to figure out how do we do things in a more efficient and better manner, and we've had huge success around that. So I think I think the reason why it hasn't been adopted is people don't really see the value in it, but it actually is very important. So the first thing we did was create a business department, and we've had a lot of success around that.
Kez Taylor:But from our end perspective, I don't think necessarily the region is innovative of what it could be, but I'd like to think that us as a business are definitely on a path to innovation and we have. We've set up a business called link, which is a modular manufacturing setup and that is up and running now and they just picked up the second project, and and, and we believe that what we want to do with construction is we've got to move the activity off site. Follow us, the design to the front, manufacture as much as you can off site by using modular, modern methods of construction, and they take the completed components as complete as they possibly can be onto site. So I mean that'll just make things a hell of a lot more efficient and productive. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Jonathan Eveleigh:I mean there are so many good examples from around the world on how modularization or off site manufacturing has improved the whole construction process. I can't believe that it's. You know, that is just a matter of time before the Middle East does does start adopting it in a bit more of a serious way.
Kez Taylor:But I think the challenge with modular is that it requires a massive investment upfront. So you've got to go and set up a whole production line, a whole factory, and that takes a huge commitment, huge investment and there's no guarantee that it's actually going to work. So you can understand and I don't think it's just in this region where people would be pretty slow to to adapt, but I think it's a bit of a global issue and that's the construction industry is struggling. You know these kind of investments, I mean you got to think hard about them as to whether you can actually make them work, but we believe that it is going to work, I think you know.
Kez Taylor:One of the other things that is challenging is that the local authority in all the regions need to adapt to technological advancement. So by using, let's call it, stackable modular, whereby you can do a high-ramp in a structural steel frame that can be transported and basically connected on site, with everything being completed within it, what you need to do is the local authorities need to approve that method of construction, which is not conventional. So before you can actually get it to work, you need everybody to be aligned, including the authorities. So if you can get the authorities to change in their pre-rolls and the methods that are being required, then you're just never going to get off the ground.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Yeah, you're right, Everybody's got to get a buy-in and commit to it. Yes, it's a good point. Moving almost back to the sort of more cultural side of how we go about the business, we heard in the very first of our episodes of this podcast from Rob Devereux, CEO of Brookfield, how they Brookfield took an early decision on the ICD Brookfield Place project to work with a contractor who they had an existing successful relationship with already, and then the benefits that they achieved through doing that. But it seems that our industry just doesn't want to learn lessons from past projects you know, either good or bad and that every project is then almost a start from scratch approach. Why do you think the Middle East construction industry does not employ more partnering or indeed any form of sort of relationship-based approaches to working?
Kez Taylor:I think it's perceived that you know it's good for business if you procure something cheaper at best value. So I think mature clients and we're finding it in the region of the Bible that mature clients are realizing that the cheapest doesn't necessarily give you the best end result. You know, if you think about everything that we do in our lives, we don't go to the cheapest doctor, we don't send our kids to the cheapest school, we don't buy the cheapest car. But when it comes to developments and construction, I don't know, everyone seems to or even attend towards the cheapest. But the cheapest doesn't give you the best result.
Kez Taylor:But I think it's around maturity. I think we are getting there. We're finding that funds that have had a rapid experience in terms of how these developments get delivered have realized the value of working together with the right partners, including consultants and specialists. Because I think when you put a client together with a consultant, a designer together with a man contractor together with a specialist, if you get things together and they are all of the right mindset, you will get the best end results and the best value out of that process and there's no harm in somebody making a reasonable return for providing that service. I think it's around maturity and I do believe we are getting there. But you know, unfortunately people have to go to audits and the audits say that you've got to appoint the lowest bid price. But they did not. Correct Doesn't deliver the best result or all money.
Jonathan Eveleigh:No for sure it won't do and do. Just again, hanging on to that word, maturity, do you think that maturity is extending into things such as time scales? I'm thinking of time scales, for example, that designers have to complete a thorough design before they go out to tender, and then the time scale for contractors to prepare and submit a comprehensive and reliable bid. Do you think those time scales are appropriate, or are they too short, or what's your view?
Kez Taylor:It might be, unless that. I started my career in South Africa and I worked there for around about 20 years. Every single project that we worked on in that 20-year period we finished all of those projects on time, within budget, with all state budget succeeding. A lot of that project was not fully designed when we actually started with construction, but somehow the industry at that point, which is more than 20 years ago, 20-30 years ago there was a high level of trust and people worked exceptionally well together and even though it was fast-track construction, whereby design and construction were happening simultaneously and things could get delivered pretty quickly, what happened to? Those? People were doing what they had to do to make sure that the right information was getting to the right people at the right point in time, and that was accurate, and we became quite good at that on project and we achieved amazing success on a repeat basis. So it's not just about time. It's having the right amount of time to come up with the right design that allows the people that are executing and doing the work to execute it efficiently, and that they can't plan it. So the perfect world. I think what you'd look for is full design, 100%, complete, but I don't think we really live in that world and I think you've got to make sure that the brief is clear and that you're getting the right information at the right point in time, but that needs a high level of trust. The other thing that we were able to do in that environment in South Africa was resolve issues as they occurred. So if there was a delay, we dealt with it. If there was a variation, we actually measured it.
Kez Taylor:If you did have moved on, what you find here in the Middle East is that, first of all, delays don't get dealt to it. There's an army of people there basically finding a reason not to deal with it and to plan somebody else, and then what you end up with is you carry baggage through the project and including variations as well. So you get to the completion of the project and you're setting in with all these unresolved issues that an army of people have been employed that are cutting money, and that's what I think is the way, because you shouldn't be using all of these people to do that amount of work unresolved for such a long period of time. So you get to the end of it. There's a massive amount of unresolved issues that haven't been dealt to it and then it dragged on for years thereafter.
Kez Taylor:I'd say a good project would be a project where it can deal with change, it can deal with delays they get resolved there and then you get to the end of the project and you resolve the final account on completion of the project, maybe a month or two after the completion of the project. But final account, the measurement and you know that measurement of a successful project that we were talking about, that we come up with the matrix. In the future of measuring it, one of the things should be that a final account gets closed about three months after the taking over certificate of the project. That'll just help everyone If you think of subcontractors, main contractors, everybody that's working on the job. Just the fact that things are getting resolved and people are getting paid for what they've been instructed to do will be a long way to improve the health of our industry.
Jonathan Eveleigh:No again. I think that's a very valid point and you said it a little bit earlier. If we can't move away from this, design bid, build lowest bidder takes the job type approach, whereby then the contractor is really just looking after his own interests, trying to recoup some of the money or make back some of the money that he perhaps left on the table in putting in a low bid. It's going to be very difficult to move towards that type of situation you've just alluded to that you had back in South Africa, where everybody's working together in the interest of the project as a whole rather than their own individual interests 900%.
Kez Taylor:But yeah, we've got to reinvent that model.
Jonathan Eveleigh:And I guess the other point is a lot of what we're talking about in terms of changing things and improving things. None of that really much matters. If you like, if the people on those projects are not qualified or equipped to make the correct and proper decisions for the project, how do you and Alec assemble and manage the right team for those mega projects and the sort of size and scale that you inferred earlier, that you classify as a mega project being, you said, a billion dollars? I mean that is a huge and complex project to manage. What sort of strategies do you use to attract and motivate and retain the top talent that you need to deliver those sorts of projects throughout the whole of that project duration?
Kez Taylor:I think on a mega project. To effectively lead a mega project, I think you do need to see our kind of quality, so you can't just be a contractor. You've got to obviously be a contractor and you've got to understand how to construct a book, but there are so many other things that you need to be highly skilled at. You need to understand contracts, you need to understand programs, you need to understand people and how to motivate them in key instructions, and there are so many qualities that are required. So what we do is on our mega project. The first thing is that we are not essentially controlled business. We empower our teams that run projects and they have the priority and they have the responsibility to make the right kind of decisions and the right judgments that are best for that project. If they are unsure about coming, we have an open deal policy. People come and we openly debate things and we will be on our way forward and we will get the right decision and the right outcome out of that. But I think you know the key thing is and McKinsey has also done research around this I mean they did research on projects and some projects were really tough program, really difficult project and really difficult geographies and very difficult environment. So what they found was that a successful project director or project manager running these mega jobs, no matter how difficult the circumstances were, these leaders of these projects succeeded in every single geography, every location, wherever they went. So, yeah, you've got to breed and develop these people. I don't believe you can hire these people off the streets, and what we tend to do is we've developed an amazing level of project directors that run our project and they need an amazing skill set that created an amazing culture in others was that gives them the ability to do a lot of these very complicated projects.
Kez Taylor:Just on the talent side, how do we attract talent to our industry? And our industry is very confrontational. It is very, very difficult. You've got to work along the difficult circumstances, but what we've got to do is we've got to try, with the stuff that is within our control Internally, we can create an amazing environment to work in, even though maybe a project is conflict on it.
Kez Taylor:But within our own environment, you know, create an environment where there's great opportunity, where people are being challenged, where people are growing and developing, and I think what people really do look for is people love to be in a productive environment. So if you go to work and you're productive and at the end of the day you've achieved something and you can look back and say, well, look at what we've done collectively together, then you are satisfied at the end of the day. But if you're working on a problem project where everything is being delayed, everything is being changed, everything is being rejected, everything is being whatever, you know, it's very unproductive for people and then they get demotivated pretty quickly. But I think our industry, we are suffering. We are not an attractive industry at the moment. And let's go back to this conflict that we've got to get away from.
Kez Taylor:We've really got to create an environment whereby people can thrive and succeed and actually want to work there, because construction does take a huge amount of effort. But if you take putting in that huge amount of effort and you're not getting much reward or enjoyment or satisfaction out of it, then it doesn't work. So I think we've got to change the phone field for everyone. The other key thing is we can't do it on our own as a contractor. We need a good client, and what we we tell me a good client is a client that is decisive, a client that can resolve things, a client you can sit down with and talk about issues. So if we don't have a proctor working with us, you could be the best contractor on the planet, but we do need the client to work together with and I think there's a lot of room for improvement there as well that clients need to make sure that whoever they are representing them on the project is geared up with the right time of leadership still to effectively need a project like that from a client perspective.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on Kez, and the proof of the pudding is always in the eating, and I think all of what you've just said there is really well demonstrated in terms of the successful projects that Alec delivers, and it isn't just one. I mean you've delivered a number of those huge projects around the region over the last 20 or so years, so I think all of what you've said is being put into practice and I think that's very, very well demonstrated on the projects. Kez. Sadly, our time is up.
Jonathan Eveleigh:These podcasts we always commit to trying to make around 30 minutes if we can, and with these huge subjects, obviously, that's invariably not quite enough time. But it's been fantastic to have you on this podcast. I'm very, very grateful. As always in discussion with you, it's been hugely informative and enlightening and I really do appreciate you taking your valuable time to share your thoughts and ideas with us. So thank you. But before I let you go, one thing we like to do in these podcasts is to leave the listeners with a key takeaway or a nugget of information or a message. If you were to offer the listeners one thing to take away with them, what would it be?
Kez Taylor:I think we're sitting on a huge opportunity in the region and globally to eliminate this waste that we're talking about on project and create an environment whereby everybody that is involved in it works in a great environment that is successful and delivers value to all. But for us to fix this every year we've got a trillion dollar issue globally Every year. Imagine we could fix it and take a trillion dollars and put it into solving housing, sanitation, water development, education. A trillion dollars is a huge amount of money. I mean it's more than double the size of the UAE's GDP every single year. Imagine what we could do. What could we could do with that if we could fix this issue globally. And it's a very simple thing to fix. It doesn't need a lot of money. It doesn't need a lot of investment. All it needs is it needs a shifting mindset from everyone that's involved in our industry to go and work together to deliver value and eliminate the waste.
Jonathan Eveleigh:Yes, great advice. It is a huge, huge topic and one that obviously isn't going to be fixed quickly or overnight, but I think what you've offered the listeners is of huge value and I think is something that, on an ongoing basis, we all need to now put some focus and energy into coming up with some solutions. So thank you once again for that. I wish you good luck for everything in the future that you personally do and that Alec does, and we look forward to seeing what exciting things you guys do next Kez. Thank you very much indeed, thank you you're dark and all of this there.
Kez Taylor:Thank you, yeah, check it.
Jonathan Eveleigh:So that's it for episode three of the Middle East Construction Real Estate Podcast. Thank you for joining us and listening. We do hope you enjoyed it and found it interesting and useful. If you did, please like, comment or share on our LinkedIn and Instagram pages. Thank you, and a big thank you to the team behind the scenes who helped put these podcasts together. You know who you are, so thank you. If anyone is interested in sponsoring an episode or joining us as a guest or would like to suggest a topic, please do get in touch. Further episodes in the series will be out in due course. So for now, thank you and goodbye. Until next time.