Middle East Construction & Real Estate Podcast
The Middle East is one of the world's most discussed and revered construction and real estate marketplaces. This podcast features some of the industry's foremost individuals and will cover a range of topics, projects, initiatives, and trends affecting the industry.
Hosted by Jonathan Eveleigh
With 23 years experience working in the Middle East for leading contractors Laing O'Rourke and Khansaheb, as host of the MECRE podcast I will be joined by experts from leading organisations in the property and construction industry to share their knowledge, views and advice on a range of key subjects, projects, new developments, market trends and other topics
Middle East Construction & Real Estate Podcast
Exploring the Future of Co-Living in the Middle East with Bass Ackerman, Founder of Hive Coliv
Ever wondered how modern communal living can transform urban life? Discover the future of co-living in the Middle East with Bass Ackerman, founder of Hive. Join us as Bass shares his incredible journey from South Africa to Dubai, and how his passion for real estate led to the creation of Hive. Learn about Hive's pioneering project in Jumeirah Village Circle (JVC), where Bas breaks down the vision, development process, and the unique challenges they overcame to bring the first co-living development to the UAE.
Co-living spaces offer a unique blend of affordability and community-centric living, and we discuss how this innovative housing solution is reshaping urban living. Smaller, fully furnished private units with expansive shared amenities provide a vibrant, engaging environment. By bridging the gap between student accommodations and traditional apartments, co-living becomes an attractive option for young professionals priced out of the conventional rental market. Bass highlights the key benefits of co-living such as all-inclusive payments, ready-to-move-in spaces, and flexible lease options, making it a brilliant choice for those seeking affordability and community.
We also dive into the strategic considerations behind fostering a diverse tenant base and the rigorous vetting process to maintain this diversity. Bass sheds light on why co-living spaces have been slower to catch on in the UAE compared to the UK and the US, and how Hive's design approach maximizes utility while catering to community needs. The episode wraps up with a forward-looking discussion on the growth potential of co-living in the UAE and Saudi Arabia, addressing housing affordability and urban density challenges. Tune in to gain a comprehensive understanding of co-living's past, present, and promising future in the Middle East!
Hello everyone and welcome to this latest episode of the Middle East Construction and Real Estate Podcast. Thank you, as always, for joining me. I am delighted to have with me today Bas Ackerman, founder of Hive, developer of the first and only co-living development in the UAE, located at JVC, to give an understanding and explanation of what co-living is, its main features and benefits, and his view of the future of this relatively new and innovative residential class. So it's time to get started and hear what Bas has to say. Welcome, bas, to this episode of the Middle East Construction and Real Estate Podcast. Thanks so much for sparing your time to join me. I'm really looking forward to our discussion today, actually.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, Jonathan. A pleasure to be on with you. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Now, look, what I thought I'd probably start by asking you is if you think it's fair to say that the topic of our conversation today, co-living, is somewhat new and therefore still relatively unknown in the Middle East region. If you agree that it is, it's probably appropriate that we start by getting you to set the scene by telling us a bit about yourself, firstly, and then what co-living is, its origins, its key features, any advantages, that sort of thing. Is that okay?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Let's set the scene. So I think, as far as I'm concerned, I'm originally from South Africa, grew up there, always had an interest in real estate, specifically the development side. It's always been something that fascinated me and then studied at the University of Cape Town, did real estate development there very interesting course and then I was very fortunate upon graduation to be offered an opportunity out in Dubai. Didn't know too much about Dubai and the UAE at that point, but was more than happy to jump on a plane and move across here and that's kind of how my journey in the Middle East started off.
Speaker 2:In terms of co-living, I think you're absolutely right. It's a relatively new term that's been coined in the last few years I'd say probably around 2018, 2019, you really started seeing that term being bandied around. In terms of what it is and what it isn't, it's kind of still out for interpretation at this point in time. It's relatively young. I think the first thing I would say is you know, people have been living together and in tribes and in families for you know, since the dawn of humanity. So in that sense, I feel that co-living is just a. It's a new term or a new spin on something that's as old as time and really today, I think, what we as an industry coin is co-living.
Speaker 2:Whilst it's still varied, I think that the commonality amongst the various interpretations of it is really this idea of people sharing some form of community, a community of people sharing something, and this can be anything from people living together I'd say unrelated people living together in a house share, where they might share, you know, amenities, food, certain responsibilities, through to sort of typologies more akin to what we are doing at hive, where it's it's a community-centric building where everyone has their sort of own private living quarters but they end up sharing amenities, sharing certain resources and and just generally embracing this idea of connecting and interacting with people. So, long story short, I think it's really underpinned by this idea of a form of housing that's really community centric and that's built on some form of underlying sharing in the community. I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 1:It does. I mean, that's a perfect introduction, or overview, I guess, and we're going to unpack more of that as we go through the discussion, obviously, but I think that's a good introduction to it, so thanks for that. What I'd also like to do, though, if you don't mind, is give us equally an overview of the development in JVC that you, as Hive, have delivered and, I guess, the process that you went through to deliver it, given that, we've already said, it's really the first of its kind in the UAE or even in the region. So give us an overview of your own JVC development, if you wouldn't mind.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. I think to sort of start at the end and move backwards from there, in Jumeirah Village Circle in Dubai, we built a building which really, for us, was the prototype, and that building consists of 120 apartments, predominantly studio apartments and one-bedroom apartments. It has a total of 175 bedrooms, so around 200 residents. It's a two-basement ground floor plus five-story building, roughly 15,000 square meters of built-up area, and that was a greenfield development that we executed. It opened in January of 2022.
Speaker 2:And I think to sort of zoom out and to go back to the start of it, I'd been working in the region from 2012 through to 2017. And at that point I'd sort of reached the point where I wanted to do something a bit more entrepreneurial, something I could put my own stamp on, and this is where the idea for Hive was born, and it took me about. That was in sort of mid-2017. And then I set off on a journey to really flesh out and develop the business plan with a view to raising funding to execute this, and that process took me about a year and a half or a year or so just to get the business plan in shape, understand the regulatory environment, scout land, look at the feasibility side of things and really get ready to start pitching local investors, predominantly family offices, and so on.
Speaker 2:During the course of 2019, I finally managed to raise the funding after having knocked on every man and his dog's door in the region, and I was very fortunate that a local family office called ARM Holding. They embraced the concept, they shared the same vision as I, and that's when we set off to develop this asset and the idea was also always to prove this as a prototype, to prove that the model worked. And the idea was also always to prove this as a prototype to prove that the model worked. It had been done, I would say, in places like the UK predominantly. That was kind of the sort of initial developments that we saw out there, and so we were quite confident that it would work here in the region. But that was the first development. So we set off, we started we had acquired the land in December of 2019, and then proceeded to develop it over the span of two years and and open it in january of 2022, as I mentioned.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's, that's, yeah, well, it is a great story. It really is, and good for you, for you know, for persevering and because I mean you know you literally were breaking new ground with with this and just literally in a construction sense, I guess, guess also my question, therefore after understanding that process that you've just talked about, has it been successful? I mean, would you regard the development, not the construction part of it, but the development overall? Would you say it's been successful?
Speaker 2:It has been. We've been very fortunate that it's. Look, you know the inception of the idea and how I came up with it. We were quite I'd lived through the pain points and so I was quite confident that if you could solve these pain points, you'd be onto a successful product. But it obviously hadn't been proven, and I think COVID was also a tailwind for us. You know, coming out of COVID, I think a lot of people embraced this concept even more so, and so we were lucky because, you know, start of 2022, especially in the UAE, it had come out of COVID. Dubai, specifically, had done very well. Coming out of COVID, you know, repositioned itself, became a very, very popular destination for younger expats to move to, and and I think we've really benefited from from that, and so we've been very fortunate that we've seen, you know, 100 occupancy pretty much from the end of the first month of opening. So so I think I think the demand is there in the region.
Speaker 1:It's clear to see very good, that's, that's very good. Um, look you. You referred to coming, coming to the uae to do something, but I don't, I don't think you, you, you talked specifically about what it was. So, so just, very, very briefly, just tell us what it was that you were doing previous. I'm getting the feeling that what you were doing previously was actually, whilst it was in the industry, it wasn't necessarily connected to directly connected to co-living. So what was it that you were doing and what, I guess, then attracted you to co-living? What gave you that inspiration, if you like, to do something like JVC as a development?
Speaker 2:I think for me, from sort of, I'd say, my teenage years, I really wanted to. I was fascinated by real estate development, property development, the idea of acquiring land and being offered an opportunity to move to the UAE to work for a smaller project management outfit, and so I was happy to accept it, even though I wasn't being developer side. It was close enough. And so I started really in the project management industry, working across hospitality assets, commercial, a little bit of residential, and from there I sort of dabbled in a lot of the financial side, you know, doing feasibilities, doing valuation, which didn't really appeal to me but gave me an important sort of insight into the more financial side of these developments, how they funded, how they structured the kind of return profiles. And and then I also ended up doing a stint as a, as a design manager, working in an architectural practice, and at the time I was kind of jumping around trying to find my niche and none of them quite fit me, but in hindsight they already gave me some key underpinnings that you, you know, helped me with Hive.
Speaker 2:And so, after having worked across these sort of two or three different fields within real estate for about five years and having interviewed with a few developers but never been offered a job. I thought, you know, it was time for me to find something that I felt a bit more passionate about. I thought it was time for me to find something that I felt a bit more passionate about and so, with my wife's encouragement, I ended up quitting my job, even though I didn't really know what I wanted to go on to do, and after a few weeks of sort of sitting around trying to come up with ideas, the idea of a hive struck no-transcript. As a real estate developer working for one, um, I have this concept. I have this idea I think could work and and that's really where I started and set off trying to develop this thing Very good.
Speaker 1:Excellent, and you gave us an overview of what a high level, I guess overview of what co-living is. Can you just unpack that a little bit more, Tell us how co-living compares with other categories or classes of residential development? What are the main points of difference and typically, what sort of things should be included in a co-living development? Do you think?
Speaker 2:So, look, there's various different interpretations of co-living. What we sort of embrace is this idea of sharing to create an environment that's more affordable, that's more community-centric, that's less lonely, and so what that really translates into in terms of a product for us is this idea of smaller living units, smaller private areas for for individuals. So you know, we were talking before in the UAE of, you know, one bedroom apartments of 85, 90 square meters. You know, which has a cost to it, and so we felt that by essentially sort of optimizing the private areas allocated to people in these buildings and then giving back in the form of larger public amenity areas and sharing those, one can come up with a living solution that's not only more affordable but also more interactive, more engaging, less lonely and just all around more compelling.
Speaker 2:So I'd say, to highlight the key differences, if you were to look at a Hive building versus the residential building next door, you can expect to find smaller or more compact apartments, much akin to what you would find in the UK or in the East.
Speaker 2:So studios at around 30 square meters, one beds around 45 square meters, and these units are fully furnished, so they have a lot of utility packed into those units. But the idea is really that it's not really where you hang out and spend the bulk of your time. The idea is really that this is where you sleep, but then you have these larger public areas or common areas in the building that's shared amongst residents, where you can work from, where you can hang out, socialize, and that would be it in a nutshell, really. I think the last thing I would highlight is and various different companies sort of lead into this more or less, but I think fundamental to this co-living typology is this idea of really embracing the people that you're living with and wanting to connect with people and wanting to interact, as opposed to your traditional residential building where people tend to keep to themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very much. So. Yeah, that's, that's true. I mean you've you've started alluding to it through some of the things you've just said. But again, just getting you to, um, expand a little bit, what? What, therefore, would you say, are the benefits the benefits to the tenant, I guess, of co-living versus traditional, you know, traditional apartment?
Speaker 2:yeah, um. So I think the the biggest things that we see is that there's obviously the affordability angle, um, and affordability is not just the overall price, but also how you pay for your rent. So, so it's one of our key things and I think this might be very specific to the UAE, but typically elsewhere, rent is charged annually For us in order to make it affordable. We try and make the overall rent affordable, but also the way you pay it. So it's a monthly payment, it's all inclusive, so you have one fixed payment month. You can budget for it, you, you can pay it.
Speaker 2:So affordability is one another key factor is the convenience of it. So being able to move into a space that's not only fully furnished but it's plug and play, in the sense of your utilities are connected, you can bring your luggage, your toothbrush and you can move in. So that convenience is something that really resonates with a younger audience that don't want to be tied down by, you know, lots of possessions. Flexibility is is something that's very, very key. Um, you know this idea of you're not locked into a long-term lease agreement. So with us, you know you would sign an annual lease, but you can terminate that lease at 30 days notice. So the flexibility is is is crucial.
Speaker 2:And then um, and then obviously, as we've already touched on, but it can't be underplayed this idea of living in a community, um, that's more active, um, it's a real selling point for for people. So I'd say in a nutshell, it's, it's really this idea of an affordable, flexible, plug and play living solution which you just don't get, obviously, with traditional uh multifamily built to red resi no, certainly not in the. Which you just don't get, obviously with traditional multifamily, walter Redresi no certainly not in the UAE, you don't.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because I wanted to sort of move into the whole demographics, if you like. Who's a co-consultant Before I ask you that. I mean, again, you've started alluding to it, but I I can remember a few years ago, when I think you were probably in, you know, in the process of developing the jvc scheme, that you, I think, referred to co-living as almost being um somewhere between student accommodation and, you know, a, a traditional apartment. You almost bridged that gap. You gave people the opportunity to move out of. You know the compass of student accommodation if I would before they have to go, and you know, and rent a traditional sort of apartment. So I've always had that concept.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's for us. We kind of see it as a natural stepping stone going from living in a student accommodation typology to sort of the real world, if you will. There's a big gap there to be breached and, as I found out when I moved to the UAE, I was confronted by this market that said one payment up front please, if you want to move in, and that's just not realistic for a lot of young professionals, you know, it's just not attainable. So I think it does sit somewhere. It sits somewhere between student accommodation, a hotel and a residential building.
Speaker 2:And to kind of touch on your questions, as a who's the audience, we were quite conscious that when we launched this brand and when we launched our product, that we didn't want to be mistaken for the student dormitory. You know we didn't want people to think that they, you know, because when you're in your early 20s or late 20s, mid 30s, you don't want to be mistaken for a student and you. So. For these people it's quite important that the environment in which they live is reflective of where they are in life, and so we purposely sort of steered away from the younger audience and today we really see like, if you look at Hive JVC, we see the nationalities as just a real melting pot. I think today we have about 45 different nationalities and I think that's down to the UAE being so diverse. But we see the average age is sort of 32 years of age and it really resonates with people Gen Z, gen Y, people in their 20s, 30s.
Speaker 2:But I think I would say I've been quite surprised by you know how many other generations have found this product compelling? How many other generations have found this product compelling? We've had people in their 60s, 50s, 60s that their children have left the house and they wanted to downsize. They wanted something that's more plug and play and something that they could terminate their lease and go and travel for a few months. And we've had some amazing residents, older, more experienced residents, and when you look at what they contribute to the community the experience, the wisdom, the life lessons it's been a really interesting mix to have, you know, not just a bunch of young folk in a building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really interesting, actually, because that's your first thoughts, isn't it? Of course, the bunch of youngsters you know, absolutely Bringing some of their habits that they've learned at U of M, absolutely by the sound of it, it's not the case.
Speaker 2:I would just add to that you know one thing that we do. That's really important for us that we vet all the prospective residents, and really we want to maintain a diverse community, and I think the risk that one has is that it can easily be, this kind of community, could easily be dominated by one subset of the population, be that a professional, a nationality or an age group. And so for us we vet quite heavily in terms of trying to maintain an interesting mix of ages, professions and you know, and, and I think in a way we can shape our product in that sense, so we've actively vetted away from, like, really really young, um, professionals who you know, who might still not be mature enough to live in this kind of an environment yeah, yeah, because there will be a.
Speaker 1:There will be a risk in that as well, won't there? Of course, if you do want a mixed tenant base, you know you don't want that being influenced by, you know, by the wrong types, dare I say going into detail. Okay, that's really interesting. I mean that's answered a few of the questions I was going to post to you, actually about demographics, and you've covered a couple of times the whole. You know the word you've used, I guess more than any other through this is you know what it does from a community point of view. So that's really interesting. That that's the you know. That I guess is the biggest influence or impact of co-living. Is that whole community benefit or impact of co-living. Is that whole community benefit? What I was also going to ask you again you touched on it earlier when you referred, I think, to co-living being stronger, certainly in the UK. I mean, I had guessed that co-living was more active in, let's say, the UK or even other parts of Europe. I don't know about the States. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
Speaker 2:It's far bigger in the states is it in the states it is, but I'd say the uk and europe is probably the the leaders at the moment well, it's interesting and I want to ask you a question about why that is.
Speaker 1:But it's quite interesting that I was. I was funny enough, coincidentally, I was at a meeting yesterday with a firm of engineers and and they were, they were referring to the number of this uk-based company. They were referring to the number of co-living projects they got on their books and I thought that was quite interesting. So so, with that in mind, why? Why do you think it's been slow, dare I say slow to catch on in the uae? I mean, uae is normally very quick to embrace new innovation such as this so what?
Speaker 2:why? Yeah, you're absolutely right, you're absolutely right, I think it it stems from the fact that this co-living typology, similar to student accommodation, it's really a bull to rent type of product it's. It's a product where you can develop it, but someone has to operate it. And so I think, I think the biggest difference is if you look at the uae and the real estate market, the development side of things, it's very much a bull to sell market um, it's very much geared or built around off-plan sales, you know, and because it's so prevalent, because it's so popular in this region, it's it's a lot less capital intensive for developers to develop that kind of build to sell typology, you know, and so it's a lot less cumbersome in many ways because you don't get saddled with the hassles of having to maintain and operate these assets, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I think, as as the ua you matures and and we started seeing it like more and more developers and players going into that bull to rent, um, bull to rent niche, obviously, which is very, very prevalent in the uk, I dare say in the uk it's probably the complete opposite. I'd imagine 80 of development. There is bull to rent, you know, as opposed to off plan?
Speaker 2:yeah, very much and so, and so I think it's obviously a compelling proposition for developers in places like the us and the uk, where this is a new spin, it's a new bull to rent product, you know. And so I think it'll still take a bit of time for that to catch on. The ua specifically, you know, taking how strong the current market is, the current sales market. Frankly, it's very challenging to develop these multi-rent assets. You know. They have a completely different capital stack, completely different return profile, so it's a lot harder to get these off the ground. I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So from a development point of view, you've got to have the courage and the you really do. You really do. Again. It's interesting because you preempted a question I was going to ask actually around and again on specifically your development at JVC what were those biggest challenges that you, you face, given, you know, given that it's, uh, such a new, a new concept? And I and I suppose the second part of my question is do you think if you repeat and do a new development, those challenges will? Will you face those challenges again? Do you think on a new development?
Speaker 2:I think, um, my challenges I could probably. I mean there were a gazillion, but I probably lumped them into two buckets, one which be the sort of novelty of the concept. So, just people, people were very intrigued by it. You know everyone that I pitched loved the pitch and they loved the ideas. And you know it resonated with people. But when it came to writing a check, everyone sort of just didn't want to be the first, you know, which you could completely understand. It was frustrating but I could completely understand it and so I think that's part of it we've alleviated largely now by having a successful development, having the track record, having audited statements and so on.
Speaker 2:I'd say the second big one, one which probably will not go away anytime soon, is more on the regulatory side. You know this. This typology doesn't fit neatly into a box when it comes to you know the, the building code and the planning regimes. You know it's it's not traditional multi-family residential, but it's it's not not hospitality, in that it's not a hotel service department, it's quite akin to a service department type offering. And I think trying to navigate that sort of maze is the most challenging.
Speaker 2:And you know things like I'll give you a simple practical example, things like parking. You know it's obviously for us, from a development point of view, these buildings rely on, like high density, you know so a lot of apartments in a building, but when you look at the building code we classify it as a residential building. That means we need a massive parking allocation, even though you look at the profile of our residents and nearly 60% of them don't have cars, and so these kind of things make it difficult to to really make a number stack up. So trying to navigate that and it's something we've done a lot of work on with, you know, the various regulatory bodies and again having a, an operating building and a in a prototype, helps, but these things take time yeah, sure, sure, and I understand that.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, I I'd like now if if we can just change subjects slightly and just just look at the, I guess what's the hot topic at the moment of of sustainability, um, and specifically, I guess, design. So, can co-living spaces be designed to promote or enhance sustainability, do you think? And if they can, in what ways? And secondly, what specifically design elements do you think are essential for a successful co-living development?
Speaker 2:Okay, a lot to unpack, I'd say. Starting on the sustainability front, look, one of the things that was interesting when we did this was, obviously, this product is pitched towards Gen Y and Gen Z, and so when I started the initial stages, we did quite a lot of focus groups around this. I'm Gen Y and my peers. The first questions that were coming in was all around sustainability. It became very clear to me very early on that this is one of the key things we have to touch on, and we've tried to obviously develop the asset in as a sustainable manner as possible, you know, following best practice and green building codes and so on. But we've also tried to go a little bit further in terms of operations. So, for instance, at Hive JVC, one of the really fun things that we implemented there was the first on-site composting scheme for residential building in the UAE, and so there we partnered with a fantastic local startup called the Waste Lab to essentially offer every apartment the capability to divert all their organic waste, which we would compost on-site and then use in the actual beds on-site. So that was something that really resonated with our audience, and so I think for us it's about not just designing and developing these buildings in a sustainable manner, but also really looking at the operational side, because that's really where the bulk of the mission stemmed from. So that was quite fun, I would say.
Speaker 2:The design the design is an interesting one because we can kind of split it between the private spaces, so your apartments, and then the more public areas, the amenities and the buildings. And I think, from a design point of view, for the apartments, we try and create more compact apartments without really compromising on the utility that you are able to generate from that. And so it was really there. Looking at it was a bit like looking at, you know, sort of yacht design, like how do you cram the most out of every single square inch of space, you know, and that's like designing furniture to be adaptable and really kitting these apartments out so it fulfills all your typical requirements. And then, when it comes to the public areas, it was almost the opposite of that.
Speaker 2:It was really saying how do we design these spaces so they could really be adapted and molded around the community? The simple thing is making sure that everything's movable, you know, so we can move things around. Um, we really didn't want the residents to feel that they were in our hotel lobby, where you couldn't move the, the, the armchair or the sofa, and, and so it was really designing these spaces so that people can occupy them, activate them, but also adapt them, you know, to suit their needs, and that's been really fun to see, how. You know, as we speak, I'm sitting in Hyde, jvc and just being able to see how people use these spaces as an extension of their apartments. You know, like working a few hours and then coming downstairs to take a break, maybe going to the kitchen grabbing a coffee, running around just to, you know, have a chat to someone over your lunch break and then being able to pop back upstairs to go and carry on working.
Speaker 1:So it's really nice to see, you know, something that you've designed coming to fruition and people resonating with it yeah, and and and, as you say, giving that that, I guess, most ultimate level of flexibility, both in what they do in their own space, but also you know where they choose to work, how much time they choose to spend in the apartment, absolutely it's crucial, man, because when, when we design this, it's it's really, it's really interesting, because it was all just, you know, developing a building like this, it must be 20 000 decisions that you have to make.
Speaker 2:And and these were all just assumptions, you know, like, granted, I, you know, I was, I think, 27 at the time, and I'd kind of loved sort of these pains that we were trying to solve, so I had a good feel for it. But still, you, you know, you're trying to to guess, you know, what is it that people would want, uh, what is it that they would would find interesting, compelling, and and and now, it's quite nice for us being in a position where it's alive, building people on track with it.
Speaker 1:We, we get so much feedback and and this is really powerful for us to, you know, utilize one thing I do want to ask you, and again you've just, you've just started hinting at what the future might hold. But my question really is do you, do you see opportunities for growth of, of co-living in the sector, in in the uae, looking forward, and within that, I guess, what is the vision for hive moving forward?
Speaker 2:absolutely, I think, based on the success of the first one and the hard work that went into it, for us now it's about ramping this up and running it out. So the vision for us is really to develop these assets. That's our one vertical focused on greenfield development of these across the UAE and now also in Saudi, and then the second vertical of our company of Hive is focused on, then, the management of these assets. So that's really for us, the vision is to build out our pipeline of development and then, gradually, the amount of keys that we're managing.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, interesting. So you're confident of the future of the sector.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think the demand is there. I mean, I think the demand is there and there's other players coming into the markets and there's ample demand role of co-living is in addressing the housing, particularly affordability, because you mentioned it earlier.
Speaker 1:You know UAE housing is expensive, there's no question about that, and, I guess, allied to that, any sort of urban density issues. So what role do you think co-living can play in in those two things?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I'm going to try and keep this short because I can get very philosophical on this, but I think what we've really seen is that, specifically for a city like Dubai that really is reliant on attracting talent from elsewhere, it's really, if you take myself, when I came here at 22, it would have been very easy for me to turn around and go back home because of the challenges one faces in trying to find suitable housing at an affordable price point.
Speaker 2:And so I think for us now, with Hive, it's really about creating this platform where people have access to affordable, flexible housing that doesn't compromise on quality or look or feel um, where they know that, you know, my housing needs are taken care of.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm happy, I'm settled, I'm safe and now I can focus on why I'm really here, you know, which is invariably people progressing their careers, making a life and so on, and I think I think co-living is a really interesting solution for cities in that manner. You know, as we touched on earlier, you know the stepping stone between student accommodation and then you know the sort of big, bad, tough housing market that that's out there, you know, and trying to ease people into that, where at the start of their career. They're not earning a lot of money, they don't want to be tied down into long-term leases that's super inflexible and so giving people this option I think is really valuable and allowing them to establish routes for their career and and naturally, in time you know they'll they'll obviously move into larger space, private villas and the suburbs and so on and so forth. So I think I think that's really where co-living fits into the ecosystem and and is a valuable contributor to, to sort of healthy cities brilliant yeah, yeah, no, I love it.
Speaker 1:I mean I've always, I think, in my discussions with you over those years, when you were conceptualizing, before you actually developed it, I thought I really did think the whole concept of it was and it was new to me. I mean I hadn't really before. So I think it's great. Now, look, as I say, time, as always, ends up eating us. It's been great. I mean, I've really really enjoyed chatting to you. My pleasure, I'm sure the audience will have done as well. So, thank you. Before I do let you go, though, we always try and get our guests to leave the listeners with a key takeaway, if you like, or a piece of advice, or a nugget of information. If you were to offer one piece of advice or message regarding co-living to anyone listening, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I think, from a development point of view, it would really be to to, to focus on the, on the, on the residents and and their experience, and and not to compromise along the development journey. Um, in terms of crafting a product that really will resonate with, with this audience. You know, because it is very difficult, it's very easy to to to stray off that path. Um, it takes a lot of courage and it takes, you know, to stick to it, and a lot of bold decisions to develop a product that really will speak to this very niche audience. You know it's, uh, it's not a mass market product that that suits everyone, and so, from a development point of view, you have to really embrace that and lead into it, otherwise you'll end up with a vanilla product that speaks to everyone and no one in particular. Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:So that would be it. Great advice, that's great advice. One last thing how can people, if somebody wants to reach you either personally to find out more about co-living or more about JVC Hive, how can can they reach you? Can we put some contact details in the in the notes when we release the podcast?
Speaker 2:absolutely, absolutely, and I would say, um, we have our website, hivecocom and linkedin. People can find me as bass ackerman and happy to also put some contact details in in afterwards and uh, yeah, if anyone's interested, always happy to have a chat.
Speaker 1:Great, that's great. Thank you very much, bas. Listen, this has been great. Thank you for sparing your time to join me. It's been fascinating and informative and, again, eye-opening. So all I need to say now is that obviously we wish you both you personally and your wife continued success, and we will watch with interest what the future holds. Thank you, a real pleasure. Thank you very much. Thanks, very much indeed. Bye, bye, and so that brings an end to this episode of the middle east construction and real estate podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this or any of our previous episodes, all of which you can still find on our LinkedIn page. It would really help us if you could like or subscribe on LinkedIn or Instagram. Thank you. A big thank you also to the team behind the scenes who do all the real work in getting these podcasts prepared, edited and ready to be posted for you to listen to. Podcast prepared, edited and ready to be posted for you to listen to. Please do let us know if you have any suggestions for future topics or speakers, either via our LinkedIn page or by emailing us on mekrapodcast at gmailcom. So until next time, thank you.